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TCP-group 1994

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Re: NOS is evil

> > level process, I don't know how many 100kB it takes up to run) under
> > Linux!  But Linux already *has* an excellent implentation of TCP/IP
> > and KERNEL level support for KISS tnc's and PI cards. For amateur
> Sure, but it has no real support for Joe Ham out there! At the moment
> as far as I am aware there are no packages that come close to matching
> Linux/JNOS for a user friendly front end, i.e. user logging into a
> BBS reading mail, sending it, gatewaying (netrom, telnet, AX25),
> and *heaps* more!

The point is that you don't need to run a process with its own tcp/ip
and ax25 stack, and internal multitasking, memory management etc. just
to run a BBS. The reason NOS has everything but the kitchen sink built
into it, is because of the limitations of DOS. Unix doesn't have these
limitations: it provides all the networking, filesystem, memory and
process management.

I don't understand the attraction of Internet BBSs, but there are a
number of internet bbs programs for Unix: you setup a userid of bbs,
with a login shell pointing to the bbs, and then the bbs goes from
there.  I've also seen Lynx (the WWW client) patched up and used as a
login shell; this provides a nice user interface, ftp, telnet, WWW
etc.  But at 1200bps this wouldn't be that fun.

I read that an AX.25 FBB or PMS style BBS was being worked on, it
runs as a single process (I imagine it forks for new connections).
This is how it 'should' be done. 

> I run Linux/JNOS here and have done for several months now, it runs
> a treat and my users love it! I think they would be a little baffled
> if all they got was '$' or '%' !
> Mind you if you are willing to write something :-)
> > radio TCP/IP, it works great (for run of the mill AX.25 and BBS
> > support, it needs some polishing.)
> > 
> > The mind boggles. I get a laugh when I see people using whatever hack
> > NOS has for SMTP, when they have the far more powerful Berkely
> > sendmail or Smail sitting under their noses. <Sigh> I guess old
> > habits die hard. Time to do some re-education...
> > 
> Hmmm, sounds like you are severely knocking the NOS implementation of smtp
> here! DOes it not work for you?? I use JNOS smtp for my incoming

I don't know, I don't use it. Why would I when I can use Sendmail or

> mail, and then use an alias to forward it to my Linux Sendmail. WOrks
> very well! Also you get the added benifit of LZW compression over
> the radio!

The XLZW extension isn't very useful: noone on the real internet uses
it; it's completely non-standard. I can turn the tables around, and
ask whether JNOS smtp supports MIME and ESMTP; I don't think it does.
(more people use ESMTP than will ever use XLZW)

> My outgoing mail, I use ELM and Sendmail. If it goes over the radio
> I let JNOS handle it. If I am sending to a non JNOS station I let
> Sendmail take care of it. Works fine for me!  

It's good that it works, I just question the value of using it when
the builtin kernel TCP/IP and AX.25 provides all the low level
networking services you need. It's a shame to use Linux's TCP/IP just
for the loopback interface; and I think it's  bizarre to be using
pseudo tty's configured in slip mode to route packets into a user
level process to duplicate services the kernel provides....

It must also be a pain to maintain JNOS sources; I mean, what if I
want to use Wuarchive ftpd? I'd have to hack JNOS to add it, recompile
and restart the whole damn thing. But I don't need to rebuild the
Linux kernel to support an ftp daemon, instead I just copy it to
/usr/sbin, edit inetd.conf and hup inetd, which makes more sense.

IMHO, I think (Linux) development work on NOS is a waste of effort:
either work on the kernel or work on porting clients and servers as
separate user level programs (but I'm not trying to tell people what
to do with their time.)

BogoMIPS Research Labs  --  bogosity research & simulation  --  VE7JPM  -- 
jmorriso@bogomips.ee.ubc.ca ve7jpm@ve7jpm.ampr.org jmorriso@ve7ubc.ampr.org

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